Rode NTG-3 vs. Sennheiser 416

[Yannick Hagman]

If you own the NTG-3 your help is needed.

Tsvisser offered a professional comparison among these two mics. I believe it would be a very crucial test for many as these two mics have a price difference of $400.

He is based in Hawaii for the rest of the year and doesn't own the NTG-3. If somebody could send it to him, he offers to send it back right after the test for free, wherever you're based - which is very kind of him.

Or maybe you know of a Hawaii based soundhouse that would participate on such a test for free.

Thanks in advance scarletusers.

[JonFairhurst]

Here's an audio comparison by Ty Ford. Look for the file at 7/9/2008...

http://idisk.mac.com/tyreeford-Public?view=web

My personal opinion is to buy the NTG-3 if this is for your own productions, and money matters to you - the audience will never hear the difference. If you are freelancing, get the 416, since it has an established reputation.

[Roberto Merlini]

I have tried both mics and now own the NTG-3, sorry I'm on the Gold Coast of Australia
other wise id would send it over

Hope you can get someone closer to town.

RM

[Yannick Hagman]

a bit more chest tone in the sennheiser and norrower pickup pattern as it seems.

volunteers needed! :)

[JonFairhurst]

a bit more chest tone in the sennheiser and norrower pickup pattern as it seems.Agreed.

With just a bit of EQ, the chest tone thing is moot. No amount of post processing will change the pickup pattern though. The pattern could mean better in-room sound for the NTG-3. And, in theory, the NTG-3 could be more rugged out doors.

Both are clearly fine mics.

[Yannick Hagman]

Hmm.. as I only intend to get one mic for now the NTG-3 could be an advantage then with its wider pickup pattern. How big is the chest difference? I personally like some chest. As for freelancing I would be to small for it anyway.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

I was checking Dan Brockett review of several microphones.

And regarding sound isolation, the cheap-ass AT875 was better than the AT4073...
Very weird.

It seemed to be lacking some bass, but some minor EQ does the trick.

Ok, it's not really something to do with the mics cited on this thread, i'm just commenting.

:)

Here's the full review: http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html

[Stefan Christou]

Since to Røde has a wider pickup, is it also quieter on it's 6 o'clock? ie slightly more hypercardoid than shotgun? I'd follow the links but it's midnight in blighty.

[Yannick Hagman]

http://web.me.com/farroutpro/sound/rode_ntg3.html


http://www.video.bhphotovideo.com/linking/index.jsp?skin=oneclip&fr_story=94d9854e2b457b81622194367b8d02812ded4d07&rf=ev&hl=true

[Stefan Christou]

It seems like the Røde may be the more useful microphone in uncontrolled environments due to it's slightly lower pickup on the base tones. Nice review BTW (it's not midnight here anymore).

I'd go for the Røde for that reason, but the fact it's silver is a bit of a turn off if I'm honest.

[Yannick Hagman]

Yes, matte black would be sweet. Seems that it is my mic also.

[Roberto Merlini]

By the time you have your foam wind screen or furry gag/dead cat
you don't see the mic but i must say a darker shade would not have hurt.

The sound of the mic is very impressive, i come from an audio background
and have tried a lot of brands over the years and this stands out. It seems to
deal with outdoor conditions on various levels really well and sounds great indoors.

Im very happy with this mic it seems to match any mic pre and has a great SPL and
signal to noise ratio.

I did get the Dead Cat WS7 wind shield and the SM4 cradle all seems to be great product.

RM

[tsvisser@yahoo.com]

Since the main appeal of the Rode seems to be price point, has anyone tried the EV ENG mic?

http://www.electrovoice.com/productfamilies/36.html

The ENG618 is a boompole, mic, case, and windscreen all in one. Its 8K response is quite limited compared to other mics, but for speech, should pose no real problem. Also built in battery phantom power options would increase the flexibility of cameras that it could be used with.

Am I wrong or does this seem like the ultimate started kit for those who want to move off of on board microphones? Considering the used market and medium pricing of a new 416, why wouldn't the 416 be considered the entry level microphone for the professional, even as sad I must say is a correct observation, if it is only to appease the perceptions of others? I don't know, maybe the ENG618 is actually a dog, but the concept is really cool.

[JonFairhurst]

I think there's a reason that the EV mic has "ENG" in the name. The 8k limit would be fine for on-location news, but wouldn't be acceptable for narrative work. Voices and sounds would lose their "air".

That said, the kit looks nice, portable and clean.

[tsvisser@yahoo.com]

I think there's a reason that the EV mic has "ENG" in the name. The 8k limit would be fine for on-location news, but wouldn't be acceptable for narrative work. Voices and sounds would lose their "air".

That said, the kit looks nice, portable and clean.

I understand what your trying to get at, but I'm not so sure with an 8K response, if that alone would be the limiting factor.

A soprano's top range is still well below 2KHz. Of course there are lots of rich harmonics involved but 3 to 4KHz should be safe to capture these. There are some artifacts, such as S sibilants than can exceed 6KHz, but these are not necessarily desirable to capture anyways.

[Roberto Merlini]

I feel a Pro Mic spec's should be at least be 40Hz-20Khz. If you look at spec's
of mics for voice over work or dialogue recording and atmos to capture with
a full response is paramount.

If using a shot gun and your capturing from a distance full frequency is worth while.

A great Mic is like a great Lens

RM

[JonFairhurst]

A soprano's top range is still well below 2KHz. Of course there are lots of rich harmonics involved but 3 to 4KHz should be safe to capture these. There are some artifacts, such as S sibilants than can exceed 6KHz, but these are not necessarily desirable to capture anyways.You're right that the fundamentals and most overtones are below 8k. However, the "sparkle" and "air" of a sound are in the 5k to 15k range. Take those away, and things will sound a bit dull.

If there are problems with sibilants, filter the HFs - or better yet, use multiband compression to filter the highs only when they are loud. Of course, in ENG, you just want to hook up the mic and go to air - the heck with "sparkle".

But for narrative work, capture the whole range and process as needed. Also, you might use the mic for more than just voice. You might want to record foley sounds - like the crumpling of paper, or the lighting of a fuse - that should sound crisp.

[tsvisser@yahoo.com]

Hey, I'm with you guys for certain things, I'm just not sure if dialog is one of those things. My hard drive recorder is only limited by the sampling rate that I use, so would do up to 48KHz at 96KHz sampling rates, 24KHz otherwise. My main tracking mics are rated up to 50KHz.

I'll do a little experiment and create 3 files, the original, low-passed, and high passed. My intuition tells me that for straight dialogue, the low-passed and original tracks will not sound much different and that the high passed will have little real content, nothing that wouldn't be brought back by a proper room tone. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. If I'm right, this still does not mean that the ENG mic is a good mic. I don't feel that frequency response alone is that telling about the quality of a mic. I just bought a Royer SF-1, and didn't care a bit that it only extends up to 15KHz.

Of course for foley, I would likely use something like the TLM 103, for its low noise characteristics, or maybe my main MKH 800 Twins or 8050 if appropriate.

Back on topic, if your not going to do a 416, the Rode is cheaper, but not by "that much", all relative of course. You still have to have a boom, dead cats, isolation, cabling, etc... and the EV ENG mic might be something to look at for that person really trying to save money and hasn't already invested in the other production equipment.

[Yannick Hagman]

Tsvisser, what about inexperienced boom operators and the 416?

[tsvisser@yahoo.com]

Tsvisser, what about inexperienced boom operators and the 416?

Of course you know my opinion about the defacto use of the shotgun when in many circumstances it is not the best tool to grab first. My goto is generally a hypercardioid, in my case, a Sennheiser MKH 8050. a shotgun is an exact instrument, a scalpel if you will. In inexperienced hands, takes can be ruined. Because of the near lobar patterns, and the fact that higher frequencies are attenuated earlier and at much differing amplitudes than lower frequencies, you get a very noticeable filtering effect as the dialogue goes off axis. A hypercardioid is a bit more forgiving in this respect (slightly) and has a little bit less of the 6 o'clock pickup. A beginner might be better served with a good cardioid or even a wide cardioid (of course the popular wide cardioid for film production is from Schoeps, not exactly a beginners mic). Tonal changes as the source goes off axis is very forgiving and more natural sounding. Of course the potential for noise pollution is greater with the wider pattern mics, so sometimes you really have no choice but to go with the shotgun, I just feel that it is unjustifiably grabbed as the goto mic for all situations.

I'm uploading the files I mentioned earlier right now. I'll post in a few...

[tsvisser@yahoo.com]

Ok, so tonight I was copying the audio tracks from a Blu-Ray disc to my recorder. Sometimes I like to hear what others are doing with surround mixes. The Blu-Ray is a concert disc of John Mayer, Where the Light is, Live in LA. There is a track on there with some interview footage and relatively minimally mic'd guitar playing. You hear foot taping, him speaking, amplified guitar, switches from the tape loop pedal, LA traffic, etc... a wide range of mic'd sounds of varying frequencies. Plus most everyone knows what John Mayer sounds like, so this should be as a universal reference as I can find. I hope this use of the audio falls under Fair Use, as we are using it to illustrate something in a research / educational capacity. Mods, let me know if you feel it should be removed, and I will do so immediately.

Signal chain...

Sony PS-3 outputting 5.1 via Dolby Digital
optical input on Meridian 565 surround processor (set at unity gain)
(3x) coaxial SPDIF to Canare AES adapters
(3x) AES/EBU to Grace Design m906 (set at -1dB of unity gain)
(6x) balanced +16dBU to Nagra VI calibrated for +15dBU

I took Wave Agent and extracted track 2, the center channel, from the 6 channel polyphonic BWF file created by the Nagra.

Crossovers were added in a DAW, of course not an infinite Q, so this is not an exact cutoff, but neither is the falloff response of the mic.

http://idisk.mac.com/tom.vindustries/Public/Recordings/Mayer%20original.wav?disposition=download+3537

http://idisk.mac.com/tom.vindustries/Public/Recordings/Mayer%20low%20pass.wav?disposition=download+2749

http://idisk.mac.com/tom.vindustries/Public/Recordings/Mayer%20high%20pass.wav?disposition=download+8658

I've formed my own opinions, but lets hear what you guys think. One thing with hte high pass file, I think that a significant amount of what you are hearing is the leakage from the crossover... that is, lots of that sound is actually under 8KHz, it just wasn't perfectly removed as crossovers, even in the box (or at least the ones I was using), are not perfect.

[Yannick Hagman]

I still hope we will find somebody to let you do a 416 vs. ntg-3 test.

[Yannick Hagman]

Hi Yannick, there are currently no plans to make a black NTG-3.

Best regards

[tsvisser@yahoo.com]

take solace that at least it is not bright anodized blue. (and with illuminated LEDs)

[Yannick Hagman]

Isn't the blueline of AKG in that color? :)

By the way tsvisser, seems that we found somebody over at reduser:
Have him contact me directly and we'll set him up. We're shooting a variety of tests with the RODE NTG-3, both indoor and outdoor. We'd love it if he'd be game for sending in a few samples back with the mic.
Guy Cochran (http://www.reduser.net/forum/member.php?u=11081)

And following review from farroutpro:
Our unscientific side-by-side test this morning with a 416 using a Sound Devices Mix Pre was a bit of a shock. To our ears (and there were four or five of us) the mics were sonically identical in almost every way. Cosmetically, the mic could almost pass for a 416 if not for the unique pattern on the interference tube end cap and feels just the slightest bit heavier. We knew that the folks at Rode were going after a piece of the premium shotgun mic pie with a new product but, at MSRP $700.00 USD, this mic is quite a revelation and a value. $750-$800 USD is the going rate for a used MKH416 in good shape. I can see this being a great option for those who want to buy a MKH416 or MKH60 and just don't have the means. Or, as a back up for pretty much everyone. The RODE NTG-3 passed the RFI tests with flying colors against every type of RF and Cell Phone interference we threw at it. On the scope the two mics looked 99% the same.
__________________
Scott Farr
web.me.com/farroutpro

[tsvisser@yahoo.com]

I was actually referring to the Schoeps CMIT5U. The AKG mics are actually perfectly subtle in their hue of blue.

If Scott says that the mics sound identical, you can pretty much print that and call it a fact.

I'm actually not registered for reduser. The last thing I need right now is another membership to an internet forum. (it's a big time suck for me, others too?)

Can you just send me his contact info? I think Scott's review is pretty much the definitive answer, but if you/they still want me to do some samples, I'm still game.

[Yannick Hagman]

Oh, this certainly looks a bit futuristic. I did ask Guy Cochran.

Is there a substitute for the Sennheiser mkh8050 you know of apart from other hypercardioids I listed so far?

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

take solace that at least it is not bright anodized blue. (and with illuminated LEDs)

But I'm sure you could easily forget about its color when hearing the results after.

:thumbsup:

[tsvisser@yahoo.com]

Oh, this certainly looks a bit futuristic. I did ask Guy Cochran.

Is there a substitute for the Sennheiser mkh8050 you know of apart from other hypercardioids I listed so far?

the MKH 8050 is Sennheiser's newer compact model. There is also the MKH 50, the full size mic body.

AKG C1000 S - these can be found so cheap second hand, because everyone hates how they sound. has a presence boost to help with intelligibility.

Neumann KM185 - expensive

Audix M1245hc - cheap

Earthworks P30/HC - cool little periscope mic that seems like it would actually work really well on the end of a boom pole.

[Yannick Hagman]

the MKH 8050 is Sennheiser's newer compact model. There is also the MKH 50, the full size mic body.

AKG C1000 S - these can be found so cheap second hand, because everyone hates how they sound. has a presence boost to help with intelligibility.

Neumann KM185 - expensive

Audix M1245hc - cheap

Earthworks P30/HC - cool little periscope mic that seems like it would actually work really well on the end of a boom pole.Nothing really worthwile then?

The MKH 50 is more expensive as MKH 8050.

And Neumann's KM185 is not that expensive on BH in comparison to a MKH 8050. I would be interested in a comparison among them also.

What about Rode and hypercardioids?

[Aaron G.]

Just get an Oktava. If your a member at dvxuser.com you get like 10-15% off! Avaliable in black or silver...

[Yannick Hagman]

Hey Aaron,

Where have you found that thread?

[Aaron G.]

Um, I'll look around for it there... It's at soundroom.com or oktava.com, and the promo code is Dvxuser. I'd suggest checking out the audio thread over there... Anything you could think of has been discussed, by professionals.

[Yannick Hagman]

Found it 5% on sound-room, but that doesn't help me in Europe.

Thank you for your tip, it's really a great audio section there.